RTD - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Kronk]

I think the time is ripe to start a topic to discuss RTD's many great strengths, and many alarming weaknesses.


To summarise some of what seems to often be said:


The Good:

- It was an amazing achievement to bring the show back at all.

- To make it as good as it is, and as popular as it is verging on the miraculous

- He does write some great scenes, and some wonderful dialogue

- He has some very cool and creative ideas

- Interesting and thought-provoking material, poss unique for a prime-time family show!

- He loves the show



The Bad:

- Better as a producer than a writer

- Tries to cram too much in, then rushes the ending

- Resorts to Deus Ex Machina(e), insufficiently prepared for

- Excessive silliness, though maybe that works for the kiddies

- Too much sexuality given small children are watching

- Glib and superficial in treatment of politics and moral dilemmas



The Ugly

- Weak on plot-logic, and general crafting of the drama

- Erratic and inconsistent characterisations (for some of the characters)

- Looks over substance, cool scene ideas over well-constructed drama

- Views the show as his personal playpen, "it's my party and I'll do what I want"



It reminds me quite a bit of George-Lucas-Syndrome.

[Abs]

I love his humour - I just feel his plotlines are the weaker of the show. As filler fluff it does well - but not for finales.
Abs x

[Sven]

Yes, he's very much a 21st-century Douglas Adams in that respect.  Great humor;  impressive style;  light on substance.  I don't think this is unique to his Who endeavors, however -- Davies' other creations are similarly, er, entertaining.  Maybe he and Moffat could deliver an impressive joint production?

-- Sven

[Kronk]

Well, I'm surprised to find so much consensus. 

Possibly cos I spend a lot of time on LJ where there are legions of devoted fangirls. (Who I like a lot, let me hasten to add!)


I must admit I'm not too familiar with RTD's other work.

But I think he could definitely benefit from having a co-writer and/or editor, rather than being the God Of All Whovians.


Some of his writing is wonderful though, like the Doctor's two farewell speeches in POTW.

[Sven]

Since it surfaced in my discussion with Eiphel in a nearby thread...

I am beginning to view RTD's aliens-working-behind-the-scenes theme as a weakness rather than a strength.  Though of course extraterrestrial invaders will always be the Who writer's favorite fallback device, there seems to be a flimsy one-dimensional commonality to the Season 27/28 stories -- such-and-such phenomenon is really alien invaders, so-and-so legendary monster is really alien technology, etc.

While this is not itself terrible, I somehow feel that this was handled better in the old days -- certain episodes (_Weng-Chiang_, _Silurians_) were presented in a Columbo style, wherein the viewer could see footage of the villains working behind the scenes interleaved with the Doctor/Companions/UNIT trying to solve the mystery.  Other episodes suggested an otherworldly presence immediately ("Right, Doctor, I think you'd better have a look at this, it seems like our old friends XYZ have returned").  Still a third approach would be sending the TARDIS to an alien planet on the edge of the known universe (e.g., _Face of Evil_, _Warriors Gate_), wherein nothing, not even the laws of physics or thermodynamics, could be assumed to be 'normal'.  There doesn't seem to be any such subtlety or variation in the new writing... only a progression of "duh-duh-DUH" surprise reveals wherein the Sinister Alien Mastermind is unmasked in the last fifteen or twenty minutes. 

Won't induce me to stop watching anytime soon, but the trend is getting to be kind of Scooby-Doo... "You mean it was YOU controlling the Loch Ness Monster all along, Mr. Jenkins?"  "That's right, and I would've gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!"  I mean, even The X-Files had an occasional mystic/unexplained spooky bit (vampires, voodoo, witchcraft).

-- Sven (as I think about it, I suppose _Dalek_ might be an exception to this formula)

[Kronk]

I think it is partly because all the stories are 1-2 episodes.

Esp in a one episode story, there is not much scope for gradually unmasking a plot.


But I think you also point out a way that Who was traditionally different to a lot of SF, in that it was more mystery and horror than shoot-em-ups in space. Partly that was a budget thing, but it did cater to very different tastes as a result.

I think esp with TCI, new Who is heading in a direction that's neither fish nor fowl. Its epicness and effects are a lot better than old Who, but the still nowhere near what we take for granted in US SF. Esp when we now routinely have SF&F movies on TV. e.g. Harry Potter and Minority Report on the BBC in the same week as TCI.

Meantime, in devoting so much screentime to effects, and making the Doc more of an action-hero, it is drifiting away from what was distinctive and what it did do uniquely well.


From his interviews, RTD seems to think he's got to go that way to suit today's audience. (E.g. The comments about not casting an actor over 45, probably not over 40.)

But being the same as everyone else is generally not such a great strategy.

[Fluffy]

To be honest I was never much of a fan of RTD. Here is a basic outline of what I thought of the episodes so far:
(For those of you who are interested)

Rose.
Didn’t like it. Thought the Auton Mickey was terrible. Didn’t think that Chris Eccleston performance was that good either. Also disliked the trashcan bit (especially the burping. Don’t like that kind of humour at all) And the scene in which they where mucking about with the Auton’s hand wasn’t very promising.
Also very RTD was the scene in which Roses mum was trying to seduce Chris Eccleston. Not my kind of humour.

The End of the World
A lot better. Liked the heavy fantasy bit. Liked Michael Jackson. Liked most of the aliens but didn’t like the blue midgets. Didn’t think it worked. A great performance by the Twig but don’t like the idea of humanoid trees looking like that. Mind you, I rather date the twig then I would Treebeard. Chris Eccleston is doing great from this episode and onwards. There was a scene in which the Doctor had to turn something off but my English is to limited to probably complain about that one. But it sure sucked!!! If you wanna have a Indiana Jones kinda scene, please lets have it all make a little bit more sense, shall we?

The unquiet Dead.
Victorian zombies? Great! Gaseous ghosts? No way! Didn’t like that one very much. Wasn’t bloody awful either I guess, but I was beginning to loose my enthusiasm about the return of Doctor Who.

ALIENS OF LONDON  and World War Three.
Don’t like Slitheen and I don’t like zee jokes about zee breaking of zee wind. I was seriously beginning to consider to stop watching the show by then butI regained a lot of my enthusiasm when I saw the trailer for the next episode however!!!

Dalek
I like daleks, what can I say…
I can nag about the little bits but I loved the dalek’s performance. Making it behave a bit more like Davros really worked. It was strange to see however that while daleks upgraded their defences and …”flexibility” (?) but they did decide to downgrade their anti-personnel weaponry. (In the olden days, daleks could kill a large group of men with one singe blast. And they didn’t have a force-field!) …And if I have to believe you guys, it was pretty nice of them to make such a environmentally friendly self-destruct device. Predators could learn a lot from that.

The Long Game…
Was great. I wish they kept going in that direction but noooo….:

Father’s Day…
Was horrible. I almost stopped watching the show but luckily the next few episodes where a lot better

The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances…
Where as I said before a lot better.

Boom Town
My favourite episode. Very good.

Bad Wolf and Parting of the Ways.
I have said enough about these episodes and I am sick of typing by now. (Did you notice? )

The Christmas Invasion
I agree with everything you guys have said about it.

[Kronk]

I probably liked most of the episodes more than you did then!

But I found RTD's to be a mixed bag, while the strongest (for me) were Unquiet Dead, Dalek and Empty Child / TDD & POTW.

The Long Game was my least favourite. Seemed like most of it was a digression from the central plot-line of uncovering what's gone wrong with the timeline. Didn't have too much of a problem with what *was* there, but just seemed like what should have been there was largely missing. (i.e. Uncovering the plot, confrontation with the baddie, resolution - all skimmed over hastily).

So kinda like being served a collection of fairly tasty snacks when you were expecting a filling meal.

[Fluffy]

I think if they would have done the new Doctor Who like how they did Buffy. The quality of that show detiriated after a few years but the way they combined one episode stories with a whole seasonal plot outline was great. And most of the episodes where pretty great as well.

No, I think it is pretty safe to say that I don’t like what RTD has done with the show. 
Don’t get me wrong, I still found a lot of episodes terribly enjoyable and I do think the show is getting better and better.

[Kronk]

I wasn't even aware of Buffy til it had been going a few years.

But I liked it a lot, and tend to agree that it was much better crafted.

Not sure how far RTD is limited by the attention span of the little 'uns, but longer and more complex story arcs would be very much to my taste.

[Sven]

Now you folks are REALLY onto something -- if, after Davies' inevitable departure (in another year, or two, or three), the BBC could sign JOSS WHEDON on as creative producer, THAT would be killer.  Buffy/Firefly dialogue welded onto Who characters and continuity would be very fresh, different, and entertaining.

-- Sven (...what a concept!)

[Fluffy]

Yay, we all agree on something!

[Fluffy]

I think if they would have done the new Doctor Who like how they did Buffy.

Boy, my English sure sucks wet farts out of dead pigeons as Timbo put it so eloquently...
But judging from your responses you understood what I meant.
 

[Kronk]

Mmm... Who is as British as a bag of chips washed down with a nice mug of tea.

So maybe not Joss Wheedon per se. But something like that certainly. 

[Sundance]

So that'd be someone with an ear for dialogue, backstory and plot?

With only three real requirements it shouldn't be too hard, you'd think. Maybe even RTD could keep the job if someone would keep a rein on him occasionally.